The Knutsen-Dyer Connection   

by Gregg Miner, as part of

- with assistance from Robert Hartman

Last Update: 8/25/08

In their 1999 Knutsen book, Dan Most and Tom Noe speculated that Knutsen may have made his move to Tacoma in 1900 in order to be close to the western terminus of the Northern Pacific Railway.  To quote: "Chris Knutsen in all likelihood saw a larger market for his instruments in Tacoma, as well as a direct railroad link with St. Paul, Minnesota and other points east." (italics mine - GM) 
When the incredible 1898-1900 flyer from Port Townsend was discovered shortly after the book was published (see Jean Findlay's story, "Harmony in the Family"), it seemed Knutsen had a specific necessity for this railroad link! The flyer (at left) contains the telling heading:

"NOTICE – W. J. Dyer & Bro., St. Paul, are general agents for the U.S. except Washington and California"

This indicates that Knutsen had a distribution deal with Dyer before the Larsons got involved - probably by 1899!

What is not yet known is precisely when Knutsen's distribution arrangement ended and W.J. Dyer contracted the Larsons.  Clues point to 1902 as the pieces are slowly being filled in.  In March, 2004, I obtained two formerly undiscovered Cadenza ads, while in July, 2005 I turned up a series of 1904 ads in The Metronome magazine – each of which provided new tantalizing clues.

1902 Cadenza ad

1904 Metronome ad

The first ad at left appeared in The Cadenza in June, 1902.  It shows a frustratingly stylized woodcut of a Knutsen-style Symphony harp guitar. The headstock appears to represent a clean, slotted, Larson-made headstock, while the neck heel could be an attempt at depicting either the traditional Larson heel or the "bulgy" butt-joint heel of early Knutsens like HGT15 and HGT1.

This same ad was then duplicated in the seemingly inappropriate Metronome magazine (geared toward orchestral instruments) from March to November, 1904.

The thousand-dollar question:
Was Dyer still distributing Knutsen instruments in 1902 or 1904? Or was this ad representing the first of the Larson-built, Knutsen-licensed instruments (identified as “type 1” below)?  

Bob Hartman and I agree that the woodcut is representing a Larson-built Symphony harp guitar.  The artist was presumably copying an actual instrument (or a picture of one), and the "Waverly-style" tuners on the slotted headstock are a dead giveaway.  Knutsen simply never did this on any known Symphony specimens.  In fact, by 1902, he would permanently switch to a solid headstock with geared tuners.

Moreover, the exact same ad appears two years later in 1904, and I highly doubt that Knutsen could be still supplying Symphony harp guitars, as he was now experimenting with his very inconsistent “Evolving” Symphony harp guitars.

1907 Cadenza ad

1909 Cadenza ad

A few more observations regarding the 1902-1906 timeframe:  If the Larsons had four years to produce “type 1” Knutsen-style Symphony harp guitar as we believe, then why are there only two or three surviving?  The various Knutsen Symphony harp guitars from this same period outweigh the Larson “type 1” Symphony by over 20 to 1!  The two documented specimens are shown below.  Both have a Knutsen-signed label (Knutsen would have signed the labels on all models of Larson-made harp guitars from the license's inception until 1912, when his patent expired).  The serial number (127) on the one doesn’t exactly make our dating system any easier, as there are other “later” instruments (“type 2” harp guitars and harp mandolins, not to mention a mandocello!) with similarly low numbers.  However, it is entirely possible that this serial # corresponds to this being the 27th Larson-built Dyer.

And what of Knutsen during the 1902-1906 period?  Knutsen began altering this Symphony model about 1902.  Was it just his normal restless creativity, or was it perhaps to differentiate his instruments from the now-licensed Larson version?  I had already pointed out how Knutsen switched from using "Symphony Harp Guitar" to "The 11-String Harp Guitar" at an estimated date of 1906 (arrived at from several directions by both myself and Noe/Most).  I had originally speculated that this coincided with the introduction and licensing of the first Larson-made Dyer harp guitars (regardless of which type).  But if the 1902-1904 ad instruments were Larson-built, then there would have to have been an agreement (in 1902) to allow both Knutsen and Dyer/Larsons to use the Symphony name (with Dyer under license, utilizing Knutsen-signed labels).  Assuming that this is true, the license appears then to have been re-negotiated when the new Dyer model debuted in 1906 to assign rights to the Symphony name exclusively to Dyer. This exclusivity is what Bob and I believe is meant by "Sole Factors: Symphony Harp Guitars" in later Dyer ads (ex: 1909, pictured).  

Who knows, but offering it concurrently may be exactly what they did.  In fact, at this point, we have no idea which came first: the Knutsen "Lower Bass Point" harp guitars, the Dyer type 3 harp guitars, or the Dyer two-pointed mandolin family.  We do have an exciting new clue, but one that raises more questions than it answers!  In early 2007, Bob and I received photos of a newly found Dyer type 3 specimen - the first with a label!  Guess what it says?..."Style 3."  Forget for a moment the obvious coincidence of being labeled with the same style number that I used for my "types."  My system was just for convenience in referring to the models, in the presumed (and still possible) order of introduction.  Let's just concentrate on the Dyer labels.  Of the standard type 2 instruments, there are five Style numbers.  Robert Hartman distinguishes them as:

• #4, no binding anywhere, 4 dots on fingerboard
• #5, bound front, 4 dot fingerboard
• #6, bound front and back, 4 dot fingerboard
• #7, full binding including pegheads, fancy fingerboard inlays and inlays in both pegheads
• #8, full binding, tree-of-life fingerboard, very fancy peghead inlays, abalone trimmed top and fancy 6 string tuners
• Center back strip is fancier in Style 7 and 8, unsure if 4, 5, and 6 are different. Many purflings were used through the years.

But why are these five levels of ornamentation on the type 2 harp guitars numbered "Style 4-8" - and not 1-5?  No one has had any idea.  Specifically - why did they start with #4?  It now seems obvious.  There was a Style 3!  And yet, this "style" refers to a different model entirely, and not just a level of quality and trim.  And, of course, it begs the next question: What were Style 1 and Style 2 ?!

We're still working in the dark, as there is something illegible written in the "Style" space on the #127 type 1 Dyer.  While the serial # is clear, the Style is not.  It looks like a "U", or possibly an "0" and something else (see below).  Could it be "01", "02"?  Or could it be something that refers to the trim, rather than design?  It makes perfect sense that - whatever this label states - Dyer (and the Larsons) would have eventually considered this first model their "Style 1" - but would they have originally called it Style 1 (since they presumably weren't predicting the future)?  This is another unanswered question.  The next question is whether there is an as-yet-undiscovered Style 2 design - between the type 1 and type 2 designs.  If there were, we would easily deduce that Style 3 (the type 3) came third, and that the type 2 actually came fourth (in 5 different trim "styles").  But we highly doubt that there is a hidden Dyer model out there to lend any credence to this scenario.  Instead, we surmise that Dyer/Larsons were considering their type 2 1906 model as their second "style" - with the Style 3/type 3 coming last.  And yet....they appear to have used the Style 4-8 quality designations right out of the gate!  As if they "skipped" using "Style 2" but "knew" a "Style 3" was coming!  The only way for this to make sense is if they started working on this third type 3 Knutsen-like model immediately after they designed the famous type 2, but before they worked out the quality designation system and filled in the labels.  Yet, frustratingly, the serial numbers (608 and 629) of the surviving type 3's with labels indicates a much later, circa 1912/1913 instrument!  It is still just too much conjecture.

And again, assuming for the moment that this al happened in 1906, we don't know who created the "Lower Bass Point" model - Knutsen or the Larsons (though I still lean toward Knutsen).

Conclusions: With the current evidence, here is the best scenario (as of April, 2007) in our opinion:

• 1899 to 1902:  Knutsen and Dyer have a contract in which Dyer distributes Knutsen-built instruments in the U.S., excepting Washington and California.  The Larsons are establishing themselves in Chicago.
• 1902 to 1906:  Dyer contracts the Larsons to build a version of Knutsen’s c.1900-style Symphony harp guitar. Knutsen licenses his patent and signs the labels, and continues to use the Symphony name on his own now-evolving harp guitars.  Dyer serial #s either from 0 to 100 (new speculation from Hartman) or starting at 100 (my vote).
• 1906 to 1912:  The new Larson-style (“type 2”) Symphony harp guitar model is introduced.  Knutsen is still signing labels, due to the original patent still being applicable, while switching to “the 11-string Harp-Guitar” for his own instruments.  Knutsen's designs also switch to the new "Lower Bass Point" and "Double Point" forms.  The "type 3" (now known to have been labeled "Style 3" by coincidence!) Larson  Knutsen-style instruments - emulating Knutsen's "Lower Bass Point" model (or vice versa) - was thought to have been introduced during this period - perhaps as special orders, or experiments or diversions for the Larsons.  Update, June, 2008: As there are now two known labels of Style 3 instruments found - both with 600-series numbers - this may point to the model actually being introduced after 1912.  Dyer serial numbers for this period are believed to be in the 100's-200's (our current "working theory" - which may be completely contradicted one day).
• 1912 to c.1923: Knutsen's patent expires.  With the exception of at least the two labeled type 3 specimens (though possibly more or even all of them), only the “type 2” Symphony harp guitar is continued, with Knutsen no longer signing labels.  Serial numbers for this period are believed to be #600-900's (again, just our current "working theory"), with a deliberate gap of 300 to delineate those made after the Knutsen license expires.
• 1923-1939: Dyer harp guitar production may have continued throughout the ‘twenties or ‘thirties or completely died out. In any event, they appear (with new Style numbers that have yet to be found on any surviving instruments) in a final 1939 Dyer catalog (see below).  So they may have been at least available by special order for up to four decades!

In the next section, we take a closer look at the three standard Dyer types, and some unusual specimens.

See also:

The Dyer Harp Mandolin Family and Knutsen’s Influence

The Mysterious Five-Course Harp Mandola - Another Knutsen-Dyer Connection????

Larson Brothers Iconography

The Company's letterhead, which highlights pianos and organs, can be seen on this 1905 response to a customer.

Dyer harp guitar historical (and modern) tunings are all listed in the Harpguitars.net Tunings page chart.  Original stringing is believed to be steel or silk & steel for the neck, and steel wound over silk for the sub-basses.  By 1890/1891, two types of silk and steel strings were available - steel wound on white silk (think of this as a "classical" string, which was later replaced with nylon core), and steel wound over a steel and silk compound (presumably like modern silk and steel strings).  We have seen several Dyers that appear to have original strings on them, and the most recent analyzed (by John Doan) has sub-basses of steel over silk, with a peculiar wrap around to form a ball end.  The gauges on this example (curiously strung in a "re-entrant" tuning, rather than linear) included: .054", .060, .062 and .068.

Larson-made Dyer type 1, ca.1902-1906

Specimen from Bob Hartman's first book.
(image © John Stropes)

Another specimen, stripped of its finish for restoration.

(images copyright anonymous donor)

Larson-made Dyer type 2, ca.1906-1939

All pre-1912 instruments should have a Knutsen-signed label like this Style 7.  Most often, Knutsen's red pencil signature is completely faded, though the label can still be identified..

(image from From Harp Guitars to the New Hawaiian Family, courtesy Tom Noe)

(image copyright and courtesy Montaine Antiques)

This "custom" addition of sequins to the bridge may have been something the Larsons offered from time to time.  However, the other custom inlays on this instrument were definitely added by the original owner.

(image courtesy John Doan)

Larson-made Dyer type 3, ca.1906-?

(images copyright and courtesy Forrest Buckman)

Update 8/25/08: Fortunately for our research, Bob Hartman was able to finally obtain this rare Dyer.  He writes:

"This is a wonderfully preserved, Larson Brothers built specimen of the rarest of the Dyer models (excluding the possible styles 1 & 2).  This is one of three confirmed examples of the Style 3 to date!   The 608 serial number is the lowest known to date in the 600 series, which is believed to have started in 1912. The body shape is evidently patterned after Knutsen’s 1906-1908 model, which has a similar body point, bass peghead shape and semi-cutaway upper bout. That year Knutsen differed from the Larson version, having 13 frets clear of the body and a 24.5” scale length (though many similar ¾ size Knutsen instruments would soon appear with 19-20” scale lengths – GM).  The woods used comply with the standard styles 4-8 and the craftsmanship and quality is comparable. The body size is smaller than its counterpart Dyer styles, which have a 16” lower bout.
Total length: 38” Scale length” 22-5/16” Upper bout: 12” Lower bout: 14-3/8” Body depth: 4” Harp scale longest string: 30.5"	The Style 3 compared in size to the common Dyer and Bob's one-of-a-kind Larson
Aside from the very neat body point on the bass bout this little lovely has 15 frets clear of the body!  It appears to be all original except for the standard neck bass side tuners.  The bracing pattern is different from the standard styles; not quite an X pattern and not ladder or Z pattern either.  It is more like a complicated H pattern.  The fingerboard is radiused for steel strings.  The sub-bass nuts are metal bars, possibly aluminum, which are not seen on the other two examples."

(image copyright Stutzmans Guitars)

All type 3 specimens have a bridge identical to the typical bridge of a Dyer Symphony harp guitar (type 2, above).

The type 3's likely all have the 14" wide body and ~21" scale of the above instrument - comparable to Knutsen's many 3/4 size harp guitars.  These were prolific in the 1900's - presumably to make the instrument equally available for women and children (or anyone with smaller hands).

 (images copyright Dan Most Estate & Kerry Char)

A One-of-a-kind Dyer/ Knutsen/ Larson?

I had to wait patiently until Bob Hartman's Centennial Edition finally came out, so he could have the scoop on this find.  Here are additional color photos, graciously supplied by Bob.

This instrument blew us away.  It is unlike anything else built by the Larsons or Knutsen.  Bob believes it is a special Larson instrument, judging by the many Larson features, including the fingerboard binding on a ledge of ebony, 5-piece laminated neck, side-reinforcing cloth strips, Larson-style inlays, and Larson-style neck and heel.  Judging by that list, Bob is probably right - still, I got much more of a Knutsen vibe from it.  It's clear from the quality that Knutsen didn't build it - yet the body size, depth and shape scream Knutsen, and are much closer to his instruments than to the type 3 Dyer.  That pickguard is pure Knutsen also.  Though he almost never used it on this harp guitars, it could be right off one his his harp steels.  The headstock is the most distinctive and curious feature of course; a fascinating affair unlike anything in all the Harpguitars.net galleries.  The bridge, too, is distinctive; Benoit Meulle-Stef (who examined the instrument as well) swears he has seen the same bridge on an instrument somewhere on the Harpguitars.net site, but we have been unable to locate it, if so.  When further queried as to its Larson aspects, Bob provided more ammunition:

1. Asymmetrical body where the changes follow the Larson norm (top and back dimensions vary in a predictable manner).

2. Top and back have a ¼” rise in the bridge area while the sides are well rounded in the Larson fashion.
   I circa dated it at 1910 but it could have been as early as 1905.

3. The standard (laminated) neck has engraved Waverly tuners commonly used by the Larsons. The bass tuners were Champion banjo friction pegs commonly used by the Larsons on all their Dyers.

4. The soundhole binding sits on a very thin ledge of spruce, also a Larson trait. Top and back multi-ply bindings rounded rather than flat.

5. Since this Dyer has a flat classical fingerboard, 17” maple body (instead of the mahogany 16” on the Type 1’s and 2’s) and bracing (see drawing) that is like a cross between ladder and X and the fact that it was strung with ancient metal wound, nylon core strings and no label, leads me to believe there is a possibility that this could be the elusive Style 2 of the Dyer/Larson line! This could have been offered as an alternative to the steel strung version, possibly along with the Styles 3,4,5,6,7,and 8 in 1906! The possibility remains that is was a special order one-of-a-kind! In any case I am totally convinced that it is Larson-made.